What will it take to start a domestic conflict? – Forward Observer Shop

What will it take to start a domestic conflict?

“It will never happen.”

That’s often a response I get when I start talking about why I think we’re headed towards a domestic conflict. Never mind that we’re seeing the early warning hallmarks of a civil war/domestic conflict; most people can’t be bothered to consider the possibility. But, in fact, we’re probably already in a very low grade domestic conflict and we’re just waiting to see when/if it goes hot.

Here’s the key thing about our future conflict: it won’t be a conventional war. We’re not talking about tanks in the streets or bombing insurgents into submission. The combatants of tomorrow won’t take part in pitched battles of maneuver warfare, but they’ll engage in what we’re already seeing:

  • political warfare
  • economic warfare
  • information operations/propaganda
  • cultural/class war
  • sporadic political violence

In other words, our war includes all the activities below the threshold of conventional war, but above routine, peaceful competition. Calls to boycott Tesla because Elon Musk donated to Congressional Republicans is an example of economic warfare. Boycotts of all stripes and terminating employment based on political affiliation is economic warfare; it’s intended to damage the livelihoods of political opponents. The steady stream of labeling as “fascist” and “Nazi” those who aren’t actually fascists or Nazis is information warfare intended to de-humanize political opponents and make them easier to target. Fomenting racial animosity and class war is a great indicator of social unrest because one of the requisites of domestic conflict is a politicized social base with a grievance; the bigger the grievance, the more the unrest. Politicized social bases who arm themselves to solve their grievances, instead of solving them through political channels, start insurgencies and revolutions. Violence against civilians to achieve political goals is terrorism. (We’re seeing examples of all these things, as reported in the National Intelligence Bulletin.)

It’s increasingly likely that we’ll arrive at a point where one or more of these politicized social bases arrives at the conclusion that their problems can’t be solved through political channels, or that nonviolent solutions are less preferable than violent ones. Some will scoff, but there’s a very good chance that we have another recession within the next few years. High youth unemployment is a universal early warning indicator of civil unrest, and we’re likely to see high youth unemployment during the next recession (and especially so as automation, machine learning, and artificial intelligence change our economic landscape). We should absolutely consider the possibility not just that a domestic conflict is possible, but that it’s probably already here — again, just a very low level.

Let’s address the psychology of violence in general and compare it to domestic conflict. At an individual level, why is anyone moved to violence? Why do people engage in seemingly irrational behavior (like indiscriminate or targeted violence)? Because they feel that violence is justified or they’re able to rationalize their decisions (i.e., violence against “fascists” is rationalized because “the mere existence of a fascist is an inherently violent act”). Why did a shooter attempt to murder Republican congressmen last year? Because he was able to rationalize the violence against them (“Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It’s Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”, according to his Facebook post). The media greatly aids in extending the myth of fascist Trump (he’s obviously no fascist), and the constant drum beat of victim pimping over issues of class, race, privilege, and capitalism perpetuate a grievance and victimhood culture. It’s this resentment, especially over issues of race and class, that’s historically been exploited to move people to violence.

At a broader level, countrymen (politicized social bases) go to war against themselves when the alternative to war (i.e., being dominated or conquered) is less preferable than fighting, and they feel that they can or should use violence to achieve their political objectives. War in America will increasingly look like tribal and gang conflict, but along the lines of politics, culture, race/ethnicity, and class, and armed with the tools of economic and information warfare that ultimately generates violence.

According to a recent Rasmussen survey, nearly one-third of Americans believe that the U.S. will have some kind of civil war within the next five years. In that same poll, half of all Americans felt that the country was more divided as a result of the Obama administration, which divided Americans by race/ethnicity and class for eight years. [source] You can’t create fault lines to exploit for political gain, and then complain later when there’s an earthquake… yet that’s exactly where we are.

No one can tell the future, but we can identify trends. We are trending towards more social upheaval, spurred on by demographic and cultural shifts (“America is for us” nationalists vs “America is for everyone” internationalists; traditionalists/conservatives vs progressive globalists; capitalists vs socialists/communists) and technological advancement (machine learning, automation, artificial intelligence, and robotics which will be very economically disruptive). All these factors will change the political landscape in America, and we should be open to the potential for generational war because that’s how long this domestic conflict could last until it can be resolved. (For some context, the Irish Troubles lasted roughly 30 years.)

Those are my thoughts this morning. If you’re concerned about where we’re headed as a country, whether on the near-end of the spectrum or the far end of the spectrum (social, political and economic instability; domestic conflict; or collapse of empire), and want to stay informed on what the headlines don’t cover, then I invite you to try us out. If you’re not happy within the first two weeks, I’ll refund your monthly or annual subscription cost – no questions asked. You can get access to our intelligence reporting and training area here.

Always Out Front,

Samuel Culper



Mike Shelby is a former military intelligence NCO and contract intelligence analyst. He spent three years in Iraq and Afghanistan and is now the intelligence and warfare researcher at Forward Observer.


  1. Von Clausewitz famously wrote,
    War is a continuation of politics, by other means.
    The reverse is also true:
    Politics is a continuation of war, by other means.

    As polarization, public revulsion, and loss after loss at the ballot box closes off the Left’s political options, (and given that they aren’t the most rational, stable, and patient bunch to begin with), they have and will continue to push beyond mere political solutions, and use the means you noted to wage the multi-front war they seem to desire from deep down inside.

    As we learned from Guido the Killer Pimp in Risky Business, “In a sluggish economy, never, ever f— with another man’s livelihood…”

    The Left will ignore that lesson, and there will be pushback.
    Unrest turns to boycotts turns to strikes turns to bombings turns to leg- and head-breakers, and that’s here, in the United States, in still-living memory.

    But we don’t teach history any more.

    Ignorance, stupidity, delusion, and gullibility will be the midwives that bring about the birth of a hot war with multiple loci from those different assymetrical warfare approaches, rather than a great classic conflict. And no one will be more surprised when it gets away from them, both by incompetence and malign design, than the Left.

    Agitation turns to shouting turns to shoving turns to punching turns to shooting.
    It’s true when psychotic patients escalate in the hospital, it’s true during police confrontations, and it’s true in mob actions. Except in the last case, with less reason or accountability, once groups descend to mob mentality. People that start out from a basis of irrationality and incivility don’t give birth to calm, considerate discussions of issues.

    We’re already regularly at Stage 4 and occasionally Stage 5 in that continuum, above.
    People who’ve experienced it describe personal financial disaster as happening “Slowly at first, and then all at once.” The meltdown of society probably isn’t going to be a Pearl Harbor or 9/11 sort of moment. It’s going to be the more frequent, shorter, and sharper escalations, leading to greater amounts of violence, until suddenly anything, everywhere, turns into maximum meltdown.

    At that point, I suspect the biggest crowds with diversity will be the worst, and the places with near parity the likeliest flashpoints, i.e. all the places where big red areas rub up against those little blue islands on the political maps, or those closest to a true 50/50 split. Mostly- and all-red or all-blue spots probably won’t be as bad, though woe to those in the minority in either case.

    Bracken’s “Bosnia times Rwanda” quote applies.

    Those are the political faultlines I see.
    Zip codes, neighborhoods, blocks, streets, house-by-house, and door-to-door.

    That red-yellow-green-blue map may become a lot more important, at least in the faultline areas.

    Just like the no-go areas in Eurostan, it always takes a certain amount of diversity to make a mob, and then it just wants a leader or three, a push, and a spark.

  2. “those small blue islands” ….ah, yes…. those large concentrations of folks who depend on others for each and everything they need and use in their everyday lives.

    consider this…most if not all stores have only 3 days reserves. that means if you shut down the supply line for 3 days, the shelves will be empty, the gas tanks will be empty, and the population will be on the verge of anarchy, no matter which flavor of politics they preferred before the crisis.

    if a small group of determined “terrorists” downed several miles of power lines in the most remote areas, on every supply line feeding a city, any city, and delayed repair crews with random sniper fire, all hell would break lose.

    or if that same group blew overpasses on every incoming highway, then set fire to a mile of empty cars, and again used sniper fire to delay fire/tow crews…well, it isn’t hard to see being in a big city is not the most advantageous place to be today is it??

    1. Srsly?

      And then both halves of that city, the blue half and the red half, will move out into the countryside, side by side, find you, torture you alive, find out your friends and accomplices, torture them too, and then burn you, your friends, and your combined families, alive and screaming, and their homes, and televise it all live, to the last child, stick, and stone, as a lesson pour encourager les autres.

      You’ll turn every inhabitant of every city into an instant convert to the other side, too, including the 500 metropolii you didn’t attack.

      Kill them all, God will know his own.” may have been a fine strategy in medieval times. In a globally interconnected world and instant communications, not so much.
      So, are you going to burn space too? Shoot down all the satellites? Tear out all the electrical and telephone wires? Jam all the radio and TV stations? What are you going to do when they blow up the refineries and power plants that supply your area, then go on search-and-destroy looking for lit houses with generators?

      How are your neighbors in Hooterville going to feel about your plan when that happens, on Day Two?

      This ain’t gonna be city vs. country, it’s going to be the neighbors in apartment 3C against the guy from 2B, and the folks from the other corner coming up the cul-de-sac for you.

      For crying out loud, do some electoral math: in the last election, the states you won, and the states you lost, aren’t ALL blue or ALL red, the map is purple, down at the individual voter level, sometimes inside the same house, or even the same marital bed.

      BTW, that “three days” nonsense is a myth and hype as well. They’ll run out of Doritos in three days, and then you’ll have to make do with Ruffles. Aside from people panic hoarding, it’ll take a lot longer than that to strip stores, and while people may not have 6 months or three years’ food in the pantry, they’ll get by for a lot longer than you think. BTDT for real, got the T-shirts. So has anyone who’s region has been through a Cat V hurricane or whose town has been hit by an F5 tornado.

      They’ll be around at least long enough to find, fix, and finish any bright light trying to cut their logistical throats, because you’ll have become the biggest threat to their existence there is; hunger will be secondary at that point, and won’t kick in for a couple of weeks. And they’ll have a serious burr under their saddle to solve that “you guys” problem once and for all.

      Other things will make cities untenable, in weeks or months, but not a few days.
      Unless someone nominates themselves to be the bullet- and bomb-magnet for the whole populations’ frustrations. Best that no one volunteers to take that one for the team.

      So maybe re-think that cunning plan for a minute, will ya please?
      Less agoraphobia, more analysis.

      A better early-stage move would be to stay out of X-ring entirely, and let gravity work on its own. Then see what you’re dealing with a bit farther down the road.

      This will be a game of poker, not solitaire.
      The enemy gets a vote.

      1. someone has clearly not seen reports from LA riots, Oakland, etc. Cities can be paralyzed within hours, not days,

        1. Yeah, living not just in CA, but in L.A., through two riots thirty years apart, and two major earthquakes, and a few other wee local problems, I can see how I might be misinformed on the subject under discussion.

          L.A. wasn’t “paralyzed” in any of them.

          Governed by idiots, yes. That’s been true pretty much since the 1700s under the Spanish.

          The two situations, “paralyzed” and “governed by idiots”, are both bad, but hardly interchangeable values.

          We also weren’t out of food at any point in time after the last earthquake, despite all electricity being off in the entire city of Los Angeles for 11 days straight (no cash registers, no credit cards, no ATMs, and largely pre-cellphones), no potable water running for a month, and hundreds of freeway bridges on every major route into and through the area being out.

          Oh, and no one ate each other, or lost their minds.

          That’s why I’m telling you the “three days” stuff is doomer porn fantasies, not reality.

          But outsiders trying to make it worse would get the perpetrators hunted down like rabid dogs in about a half an hour.

          You want to discuss what happens after a couple/few months, we can talk. That’s when you start getting into Venezuela food riot territory.

          Either way, the best thing to do if you’re not there in the first place, is to not go there, and not poke the situation, unless you’re eager for a short but interesting end-of-life experience.

          Starting with considering how anyone thinks travelling to the nearest big city to sew all that merry mischief is going to be regarded by the Officer Friendlies, Deputy Fifes, and state police who’d be manning roadblocks 24/7/UFN at the state, city, and county limits, within about two hours after things start looking bad.

          1. I disagree with you, the flaw in what you experienced during the riots, and earthquake, those events were local. They were contained to only the LA basin, not the entire country all at once.

            If this becomes a nation wide event, then yes stores would be emptied in 3 days or less. Fear, and lack of information is a contagion, that breeds more fear.

            Once the sheep start seeing fires, killings, and riots happening all over the country, they’ll move as a herd. Stealing, killing, and doing whatever else they have to, so they can survive.

            A nation wide outbreak of violence, and rioting would be a completely different situation than what you dealt with during the LA riots, and earthquake.

          2. You are not talking about a national issue, just a local issue. 100 miles from the riots nothing ever happened. Supplies were brought in easily. If we get a conflict at national scale you can’t even compare it. Not even close to any of the riots we’ve ever had. forget it.

      2. The post you replied to is an example of those guys who sit at home planning how they’re going to “get back” at those ebil democrats (because they almost always have it split in Dem vs Rep) by launching some dramatic ops with their friends post SHTF.

      3. I like the BTDT part, makes me recall Hurricane Ivan specifically. We are stocked as far as we thought, but remembering back, we had the same crap everyone else did. I was a teenager, and not in a prepper family. We received occasional water, ice and MRE handouts from the NG setup about four miles away, but we didn’t start getting that stuff for about a week. And when we finally did get it, we didn’t NEED it yet. We weren’t starving and looking to loot. We were still doing yard work with the neighbors at that point, exerting ourselves. That was a week with basically minimal stores, fora family of five people that included two teenagers. So yeah, I’ve always thought the “three days” deal was sort of a pessimistic estimate for how long it’ll take people to go from civilized to savage. Especially since we’ve got a lot of people who don’t REALLY know how to be a savage. I know a few days of hunger, REAL hunger will teach you fast, but it takes a lot longer to start getting hungry than just three days when you do still have those Ruffles you mentioned. Then factor in that fact that true hunger doesn’t instantly produce a savage in a society where savagery is removed from most people by about 120 years.

        They’ll learn, but it’ll take longer than three days. And it’ll take longer still to get good at it.

      4. Wow, ignorant much ? Stores will be empty in 3 days and if things go quickly they will be empty in HOURS. Stores don’t have more than 3 days of supplies for several reasons. One is freshness(ok, much is non-perishable) but the main reason is $$. They operate more and more on the just-in-time principle. The less supply you have in stock, the more cashflow you have. You BETTER be prepared. Not only supplies might be cut off from the source, even if there is source, that truck load will never make it to your store.
        I also think it’s true about demographics being in the same areas. Even red areas are not far from being blue and vice versa. Even at 75% vs 25% (which is a HUGE difference and not seen much) it means 1 of 4 is the ‘other’ color. We would have RWANDA situations and it will get real ugly.

  3. Another important point is that each side will wage a war of assassination of the other side’s leaders. That’s how you fight an asymmetrical internal get together.

  4. Sam, you bring up a lot of interesting observations. I am also a former intelligence officer and Iraq War veteran, and I can appreciate your use of IPB. At the 10,000 feet level, I believe your analysis is spot on. You are definitely on to something that I have also been observing as well. What I believe would be helpful is to step back from the conservative lens and look at the whole picture. You are only going half way. Take off the filters. When in Iraq as an S2, I tried to always think “how would the Shias feel about this? Why?” and then the Sunnis and Kurds etc etc… An example I like to use is the 2006 bombing of the Al-Asqa Mosque in Samara. From an American (and Sunni) point of view, it was a Sunni Al-Qaeda attack that attempted to pull Shias into a full on sectarian war. But from a Shia point of view, that was their 9-11. An enemy attacked the sacred location where the messianic 12th Imam is prophesied to appear in the future. It was an attack on their identity. Strategically, Al-Qaeda knew that was level of provocation required to pull the Shias in – and it worked.

    “War” and “Conflict” by nature has at least two (or more) sides. You paint a marvelously detailed “Road to War” view from the right, followed by potential courses of action that are very feasible. But you get the motives of the left wrong. I’m not saying you need to believe the motives of the left, but without painting an accurate picture, your analysis is incomplete.

    Case in point – Alex Jones. His speech was suppressed. But it is a shortcut to say the motive of Facebook et al is to suppress free speech. It could be argued that the businesses exercised their right to refuse service to a customer just as the famous cake maker exercised his right to refuse service to a gay couple. Free enterprise.

    My point is, from the perspective of each other’s side, there are irrational arguments happening on the other side of the cultural divide. Hence, the coming conflict. He who believes his own bullshit is the first to die (and I say that to myself all the time). If you’re experience is similar to mine, I’m sure you have experienced many a briefings back in theater where you recommend to take “X” avenue of approach, and the idiot S3/OPS Officer/Commander says you are wrong, the bad guy will never attack us there, then “boom”.

    Other than that, as someone on the “left” of the divide, but a fellow veteran who has fought the same battles… great job. you’re on to something.

  5. Case in point – Alex Jones. His speech was suppressed. But it is a shortcut to say the motive of Facebook et al is to suppress free speech. It could be argued that the businesses exercised their right to refuse service to a customer just as the famous cake maker exercised his right to refuse service to a gay couple. Free enterprise.

    Sure, but in so doing, FB loses its right to advertise itself as a free speech platform under state law and, because it is now exercising editorial discretion over content, it can be sued for libel….Neither of which are acceptable results for FB, which will use its attorneys and lobbyists to seek protection from its own decisions…FB has also been the recipient of large amounts of government money, which also changes the equation.

  6. Listen and learn guys because this is the truth. And your life depends on it.

    Four things bring down a nation and leave it mangled in the land fill of history to be eaten by the rats.
    1) Idolatry–the love of anything or anyone that is greater than the love of God. Anybody guilty?
    2) Infanticide–the sacrifice of children by any means to any god named or unnamed. Perhaps the god of inconvenience would do.
    3) Sodomy–the use and abuse of the temple of God for any unnatural purpose.
    4) Unrepentance–a willful refusal to acknowledge or turn away from personal or national sin in defiance of God’s warnings.
    And the 5th one is the unforgivable sin of refusing to receive the crucified Christ as savior.

    Judgement falls in the following ways:
    1) War by invader and or civil war.
    2) Economic collapse.
    3) Pandemic disease.
    4) Famine

    The precursor to all out judgement is natural disasters of all kinds.
    Agricultural pestilence

    I recommend you buy a bible (I use the Amplified bible for clarity) and learn to pray. Because when it comes only the obedient Christian has Gods promise of safety.

    In that day some will curse God and some will submit to His authority. His promise of safety is only with the repentant.

    Good luck with those bug-out plans. And keep on analysing the times we live in; that is wise. The fool lives day by day without a concern for the morrow except his basic needs and the hope of lotto coming his way.

  7. Once I began answering myself, and others with what does SHTF or other turmoil look like by stating “your looking at it”, at least to myself it made the future I can not predict, way easier to be equipped in all manner to the best of my abilities and resources to handle.
    I guess thats all one can do. And have Faith, being very important for me, as it is one of the a sources of my courage, and to keep my head screwed on tight.

    Lot of that I picked up from others out in the liberty blogsphere and incorporated it with my own individualism and prudence. A bit here, a bit there, pretty soon its a big bag of tools to deal with the unknown unknowns.

    I think part of the grass roots voluntary natural movement of the “Honorable Resistance” like how John Mosby defines it in his wonderful axiom, is a natural perception of others who have joined also. This is difficult to describe, it is part that plurality thing, as in a plurality that is beginning to understand it is one, but hasn’t gelled into a solidarity movement. People in this “stage” I think begin to see they are not so alone as first thought. You can find strength and satisfaction in that for al the obvious reasons like having allies etc. Another part is always fierce self determination and rugged individualism, in some ways a hurdle in some ways a blessing, its got its own set of precepts and values, and dynamics unlike anything else.

    What will it take?
    Exactly what we are watching the “deep state”, its actors and every other faction of the various marxian human extinction movement with a motive and special interest, to see America destroyed and conquered. In some ways, if you take the great circle route the Fabian’s long march of history and apply its lessons to the here and now, how could it happen any other way?

    My question went from what will it take to start a domestic conflict, to what will it take to Win! against them.
    Thats all I want. To win. I have no intention of loosing. Not on my watch for my part. For us to win as Freemen of The West. We are smart enough to figure out the rest after we win.

  8. I’m not sure what the spark will be, but with the two sides of the debate moving further apart by the day, it’s more a question of when things will go from glares and shoves on the playground to a donnybrook.

    Since Dee identifies as one on the left, I’ll identify as one on the right or at least a Constitutionalist. The left has apparently decided to embrace a course which until recently would have been thought of as radical and out of step with any significant number of Americans. Now, we see and hear the Progressives and Democrats embracing a hard left agenda which IMO is incompatible with even the remnants of the Constitution that remain.

    That move is making many formerly disinterested folks sit up and take notice… it’s also spawned a “#walkaway” movement that’s stripping off many from what was the traditional Democrat Party.

    We also see States testing the inclination of the Federal Government to enforce its will (CA) and you can be sure that this lesson will not be lost on the right if the electoral tables are turned. I don’t see a Progressive Left Administration being as patient or demonstrating similar forebearance regarding recalcitrant States and populations.

    1. The dems are embracing more far left policies which will drive a lot of people away from them. What you hear and see on the news is NOT what people are really feeling about this. The 2016 election has proven that very clearly. Poll numbers mean nothing and are very likely made up. This ‘blue wave ‘ is likely made up. The media is trying to brainwash you into giving up. We need to vote and we need to counter what the progressives do with an even stronger response. For instance NIKE needs to be boycotted. I know I will never ever buy from them again.

  9. So, do patriots have the local democratic party voter database? If not, then you may be going in with limited target intel.

    There are plenty of GOP anti-Americans, but the democrats are mostly anti-Americans. Know your local democrat voters, and you know your local probable hostiles.

    Without usable target intel, you will have to rely on your own observation of enemy-supplied intel (prog bumper stickers, etc.) for target selection.

    Good luck.

    1. True that. Constantly working on it. Making my lists and checking them twice. Not too worried about CWII until the “economic correction” takes place. Sheeple and Normies do not give a hoot about what is discussed at WRSA. They will give a hoot when they cannot find any more Pepsi and Nacho Cheese Doritos at Wally World. Bleib ubrig.

    2. Patriots need to learn to cooperate and to think and act to common goals and in ways that reduce the ability of the the other side whoever that is to infiltrate them. Until they do this, there is no “plan to win” that will work

      Individualism is a fast way to die on the insurgency/CW battlefield.

      Certainly at this time the patriots have better soldiers and better tactics, the other side has better logistics and origination by far.

      This ends up as work together or you lose

      Also Aesop is right, there isn’t enough force to take out the cities effectively and given that 80% of the population is urban areas , the patriots need to learn to understand and govern cities.

      There is no sentiment to go Khmer Rouge on them nor is there a sentiment too leave me alone. People need leadership and if the Right doesn’t step in and give it, the Left will

      The Right abrogating any responsibility except to make country clubbers richer is what got us into the mess we are in.

      This means you and yours are going to be setting standards and enforcing them , telling people they can or cannot wed, cannot get an abortion, must pay taxes and doing almost all the things the other guys do. Blue laws? Yep. You are not giving urban people liberty as they don’t want it and won’t know what to do with it. You are giving them a healthy sane order

      There are differences, you’ll be coming from a Nationalist perspective and probably a Christian moral structure rather than a Globalist and Cultural Marxist one but in reality you will be ruling

      Lastly any plan that was developed when the US was a White country is right out too.

      Make you plans for the real world

  10. My thinking is that the next domestic conflict will look more like “Gangs of New York” than “Red Dawn,” until the Hans step in to give the “legitimate” government a hand because we owe them so much money. No matter which way this shakes out, our debt will overshadow everything else. “The debtor is slave to the lender,” says Proverbs. Don’t believe it? Try getting out of a student loan.

  11. Every time I talk to someone about the possibility of some kind of civil conflict, and they say something to the effect that they don’t think it’ll ever happen, I immediately know that they haven’t actually put in any deep thought into the subject.

    Other countries around the world, dare I say all of them, have experienced civil wars and conflict. But since the 1860’s, we really haven’t, as far as most people define it. So am I now to believe that we in the US, who are told that we don’t even have a culture of our own, a language of our own, a diverse country, have somehow banded together and achieved a level that puts us above the level of human nature, above the faults of mankind that cause civil conflicts? Are we somehow above those flaws in the human psyche?

    Second, many of the conflict deniers simply refuse to notice the writing on the walls, and I’m not talking about the sporadic violence we already see everywhere. Im talking about the actual political debates and voting and campaigning. Do they not notice a difference between what’s been happening since around 2008 or so, compared to the days of the 1980’s and 1990’s? I could even push it and point out the faint writing on the walls as early as November and December of 2000.

    What I’m talking about is this: We have two sides in American politics right now. One feels that their own political position on any topic is an absolute requirement in order for them to continue their way of life, in order to survive, in order to maintain any sort of happiness at all, and that the other side’s political position represents an outright existential threat, no matter how mundane it really is.

    That’s how ONE side feels about the other. Now let’s see how the other side feels.

    Oh, they feel literally exactly the same about the other side.

    There can never be a reconciliation between the two sides because now, whether correct or not, both sides see the existence of the other side as a threat to their own way of life, to their very survival in many cases.

    Anyone who doesn’t see a conflict coming hasn’t noticed this yet.

  12. I am not going to get into the misery of a forever war. Should a
    sure enough shooting conflict start I for one will advocate for
    and fight for a sustained attack in pursuit of all-out conquest.
    A taking, holding and administering territory with laws and a
    standard for public morals outside the home that
    we once called common decency

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